#queerbait didn’t die for this

[warlenys]

every time someone calls hilson a qpr in my tiktok comments a baby dies

[steddiesupportgroup]

Hm. For a mountain of reasons it looks like I won’t be watching s5

[0-therw-0-rldly]

I’ll preface this by saying I’m not really a shipper. I just enjoy canon couples on TV Series/films.

Terms I’d like B*ddies to remove from their vocabulary because they don’t know how to use them correctly:

Media literacy: For a group that uses this term a lot you sure do misinterpret everything in this show.

Queerbaiting: Going to expand on this one. A show that’s already been pre established for having queer characters simply cannot queerbait.

Ship baiting: While sometimes you can argue that they could be doing that, that’s only if you look at the show in a very biased manner. You might think this is the case but the general audience doesn’t think the way you do.

Ship war: This isn’t a one tree hill situation where there was Team Brooke Vs. Team Peyton where the middle guy (Lucas Scott) had canonically been with both women. This is people not understanding fanon vs. canon and not being able to just watch the show. It’s like playing quarterback on Madden and thinking you could be better than Patrick Mahomes.

Plot device: everything’s a plot device. Move tf on.

Predator: You sound like crazy MAGA supporters calling everything regarding the LGBTQIA+ community as predatory. Sit down.

Co-parenting: I know this is a big one and discourse was brought up during the hiatus. Oliver and Ryan have loosely mentioned this years ago but it was never to be taken this seriously. Do y’all even know what co-parenting is or are you that big of a donut? Buck is someone who loves his best friend deeply and by extension, his kid too. Him taking care of him frequently does not make him a co-parent. Maybe he is a parental or uncle figure, but he isn’t a co-parent. Also, I swear y’all need to learn how a will works. He is a GODPARENT, not a GUARDIAN. Stfu.

Hag: This especially applies to women, but to say that someone 25-30+ is a hag for still being in fandoms or enjoying tv shows/films is inherently misogynistic. Men are never held to this much criticism for enjoying fictional media, but women aren’t allowed to?

Queer Coding: people of the same sex “looking at each other”, hugging, or having intimate moments all together doesn’t make them queer coded. It could mean that they just love each other that deeply platonically. While representation is amazing and just because you interpret a character as queer coded (just like my ship baiting comment) doesn’t mean others interpret it that way as well. In addition, network TV has stipulations, and also actors are allowed to decline storylines. Ryan has mentioned his character is heterosexual an abundance of times which means (at least for now) that he isn’t willing to go for this storyline.

Dead naming: Y’all construing the fact that Buck wants people like coworkers and some of his former love interests, to saying Evan is his dead name is inherently transphobic because do you even understand what a dead name is? Evan Buckley is shown as being fine with being called Evan by both Tommy and his sister. I’m pretty sure some of his love interests have called him Evan as well.

Fetishizing: You guys saw two hot guys who “looked at each other” and for 6 seasons have wanted nothing but to see those two make out with each other. Those of us who enjoy Tevan saw Buck giddy at the thought of Tommy and have wanted domestic fluff for them since.

Anything to do with racism, homophobia, and misogyny: I’ve seen the way you guys have conveniently weaponized Henren and by extension Aisha/Tracie when you didn’t get the Ryan/Oliver interview, don’t try to act like you’re morally superior. Not to mention wanting a canonically gay man to die in a show and not even holding those who use your ship name to write CSA fics accountable because you’re petty and want to throw hissy fits. Anyone looking at your comments as an outsider would think you’re homophobes and yes queer people can be homophobic.

I do hope you can expand your vocabulary. 🤍

[levelofyoureye]

despite making a destiel meme on here that got incredibly popular, i have never seen a single full episode of supernatural. however, my best friend @res-spectans is a huge fan of the show, so she’s shown me the 15x18 scene™️ before (which is why i was able to make the meme LMAO). a couple of nights ago i was sleeping over and late into the night we were very delirious and decided to watch a compilation of deancas highlights on youtube. and holy fuck…

supernatural fans HOW DID YOU DO THIS FOR 11 SEASONS STRAIGHT. all it took was that one 20-minute compilation of their best moments and i was IMMEDIATELY convinced that they were in love. actually i didn’t even need the 20 minutes. even the very first clip from that video was actually some sick fuckery. the absolute journey i was taken on in those 20 minutes of homophobic queerness was just… wow. if i had adequate words to describe the buffoonery that must’ve been going through the creators of this show’s minds then i think i’d be on a hit list. HOW WERE THOSE TWO NOT TOGETHER??? ur telling me there was literally an episode with a wholeass plotline about dean refusing to let cas die a virgin? the show deadass acted like they didn’t explore each other’s bodies even ONCE?? and THERE WAS A WHOLE EPISODE WITH DESTIEL IN A FUCKING MUSICAL?!?!? like they FULLY ACKNOWLEDGED THE QUEERBAITING THEY WERE DOING AND STILL ACTIVELY CONTINUED TO DO IT?? i’m sorry but there is quite literally no way. not to even mention all of the romance tropes they fulfill. cas breaking out of the brainwashing (i’ve also been informed that dean was originally going to say “i love you” there like HUH)?! THE MIXTAPE? neither of them ever denying anyone who called the other one their boyfriend?? “dean and i share a more profound bond” WHAT. dean calling cas devastatingly handsome? maybe it was because i was sleep deprived but by the time we were done with the compilation my ribs were aching from how much i was CACKLING. i was just in absolute disbelief at the absurdity of it all. like,,, people dared to call this subtext? this was the gayest shit i have EVER SEEN. if you are actually a fan of this show then i am so fucking sorry. i cannot believe you all just sat through that for 11 seasons and then had it confirmed in the end by castiel being sent to SUPERHELL. you gays deserved so much better and SO DID DESTIEL.

[nyaagolor]

AA prosecutors and main villains ranked based on whether or not I think they’re homophobic

Klavier: No, and he’s extremely loud about it because it makes Kristoph really mad. You would think he’s slept with dozens of people before bc of his job but he’s actually such a perfectionist that he’s never actually gotten any action. He respects the hustle tho

Von Karma: No, it’s funnier this way. He thinks ur beneath him on principle, gayness has nothing to do with it

Simon: He’s not but his bird is

The Phantom: I’m not convinced he has any opinions beyond what’s required of him, but Bobby Fulbright owns no less than 4 shirts that say “JUSTICE DOESN’T DISCRIMINATE” on big rainbow letters so I think the phantom is an ally by default for the brief time we knew him

Godot: When asked for his stance on gay rights he gave an answer that lasted 20 minutes and misquoted no less than 6 philosophers. Turns out the entire answer was him complaining about Lana Skye and didn’t answer the question whatsoever. Jury’s still out but Maya swears Mia told her he was bisexual

Franziska: Yes but it’s bc she’s a lesbian with the world’s worst coping mechanisms. Realizing she was crushing on a girl in boarding school was the start of her villain arc and I think she needs to go to a gay bar immediately

Edgeworth: Yes but only to himself

Kristoph: Yes to everyone BUT himself

Dahlia: Yes but for gay men specifically bc they’re harder to manipulate. Women are fine. I think she’s a misandrist also. She reads toxic yuri

Matt Engarde: He’s the world’s most bisexual looking straight man. He lets a homophobic remark slip in an interview and then makes an apology video about it. Despite being homophobic I think he would have tried queerbaiting his fans on multiple occasions

Morgan: She’s an ally but only to Maya because she wants the main bloodline to die out and that’s way easier if Maya is a lesbian. It was only after the matchmaking failed for the 12th time that she finally gave up and pivoted to murder

[wellofdean]

Sorry ,for me personally, it has to be out loud acknowledge to even remotely make up for how badly they treated fans over the years, the out loud queerbaiting in one breath and mocking in the next. The in text gay jokes, sexism and homophobia. The digs at their own fans.

They want the credit without having to do it. Again. They want the pat on the back they need to earn it this time.

Years of baiting for views and profit needs a payoff imo. Sorry people downplaying how important the canonization of this ship in particular is just hurts to see over and over. Stop letting them off the hook please. You deserve more. We all do.

It’s important. It does matter.

The cas/destiel hope baiting continued with the Winchesters and that’s why I’m at a put up or shut up moment with Jensen and the writers. He and Danneel kept the hype up every week that the show was airing all the while knowing cas doesn’t even get a name drop. He’s not even hinted at. Mary/john paralleled destiel so many times yet refused to call it want it was.

They could have shut it down week one, they interacted on tweeter a lot during airing and knew what fans thought there was going to be an acknowledgment or hint that never happened. They are smart people, they saw the speculation and hype but didn’t step in with a gentle ‘sorry guys this is about the new crew’ they fanned the hope instead with ‘something big happens’ that was just dean meeting the new team.

Loved the Winchesters as a show, sad it got dropped cause I loved the new cast so much. That said the baiting hurt and wasn’t necessary, the show was good.

Everyone is looking back with rose colored glasses and rewriting history. But things were ugly with the spn team/cast/writers at times. The homophobia was pretty out loud in a way it was allowed to be in the early 00s. They’ve grown and that’s wonderful but it still happened.

They need to earn the praise they want imo. No hate! Glad you are happy! just feels a little unfair to say we should all let them off the hook again and be happy with nothing while praising the benevolent straights. Just my two cents 😅💚💙

I want to answer this sympathetically, because I know it's disappointing that no one has been willing to just say "Dean and Cas are gay for each other" out loud, and I don't think there are many people in this fandom who picked up what the narrative was putting down, and were not disappointed in the finale for LOADS of reasons, only one of them being that Dean never had the chance to acknowledge what Cas said to him. I understand your feelings, my anonymous friend, I really do. I too found the end of Supernatural deeply frustrating, because they managed to erase the meaningful journeys of every single character, not just Dean, though what they did with Dean was the worst. I completely understand wanting them to JUST FUCKING SAY IT. I do. I get you. I simply do not agree.

My argument, which I have made many, many times, is that what you want is THERE in the narrative. They made Cas Dean's ride or die, they made it obvious that Dean can't carry on without Cas -- that the loss of Cas means Dean loses his will to live. That was explicit. They made it clear that more than anyone else, EVEN Sam, Cas is essential to him. They structured the narrative around Dean and Cas's emotional beats. They let Cas say the obvious thing out loud, and then showed us Dean behaving exactly as Dean would in a situation like that -- in the midst of his existential crisis about who he is and whether he has ever had free will, and with the world falling around them -- they showed us Dean unable to speak, unable to respond but overwhelmed with emotion. Like, remember that when Mary died when Dean was four, he was unable to speak? Is it really so hard to imagine that he loves Cas with all his heart? To read love in Dean's watery eyes, and the way he chokes down his heart and begs Cas not to do this? Not to being saying goodbye? I mean... I CAN DO THAT MATH. Literally everything about the story supports it. IT IS THERE.

Fandom always argues: if Cas were a woman, we wouldn't have any questions, so what I am just wondering is, why do we have questions again? Is it because we (homophobically) can't just see it for what it is because it's gay? Because, when it's gay we lose our ability to interpret narrative, and we need to be told, like we are 5 years old, what's happening in a perfectly obvious story? Or, is it a skill issue? Is it because we need the creators of the story to affirm our interpretation? We need the actors to just TELL US what they meant when they did that thing with their faces? Do we need their permission to understand it for what it is?

I've said many times that calling what happened on Supernatural 'queerbaiting' because no one ever made out or fucked on the maps table is really offensive to me actually. Don't you know that there are queer people in this world who never get to live their truths? Who just ache and yearn and want, and never get to have? Like, that there are in fact queer people who are afraid to say what they feel, or who don't understand or embrace who they really are and what they really need until it's too late? Are those not QUEER EXPERIENCES? I love Dean and I love that story because it's queer as hell and it makes ME feel seen, because I am like him! I am a queer person of his age who didn't ask myself those questions seriously enough in time! My own queerness is very fucking real, and it is UNLIVED. That HAPPENS to actual queer humans, and like, it's not queerbaiting when it's just queer, but didn't tell you the queer story YOU wanted it to tell. You saw years of tease? I saw years of choices, and love, and accretion of deep wells of emotion. I saw a clear romance, and a character becoming. It was a story I needed, AS A QUEER PERSON.

And the Winchesters was just joyful if you went in with that understanding of the previous story. It was like getting an A+ in Supernatural week after week from Dean himself. I can accept that the stars didn't align for Cas/Misha to come back in the first season, accept that if he were coming back, it needed to be more than a cameo to make it right, and that it didn't work out. I am so sad it was cancelled, but I can accept that it was leading someplace it didn't get to go. That's not queerbaiting, either! It's telling a story that was aborted, and I think if you don't see that, then that is DEFINITELY a skill issue.

I'm not looking back with rose coloured glasses; Supernatural is fresh in my mind. I watched it again without the internal pressure of expectations that aren't going to be met, and let it tell me what it was really doing all along. I am happy. It's a really compelling, deeply romantic, deeply queer story. I don't need permission from anyone involved to think that, and I don't need it explained to me. I understand wanting it to just be fully explicit, but I would not trade the story it did tell for a simpler, less engaging one, that asked less of me. I love it very much AS IT IS.

And, please: point me to this fabled abuse of fans. I have never really seen an example of it that is not easily debunked with a little bit of context.

[oddlittlestories]

No other we die on these hills (or put it in the tags)

Wish my brain luck

[olderthannetfic]

I really wanted to ignore the vld wank and hoped it would die off.But ffs, no-one ever said Klance was pedophilic. Klance shippers who were the big antis in the vld fandom. They were the ones who called sheith “pedophilic” and by extension, any ship involving Shiro with one of the paladins.Klantis (klance shippers who were “antis”) were the ones who harassed other fans and the crew of the show. They played a big part of popularizing age discourse, harassment, and the “anti” mentality. (vld 1/3)

--

The only comments on Keith’s and Lance’s age difference happened when the ages for the paladins were revealed in an official book. Antis used to argue that sheith was “pedo” because Keith was a minor and Shiro was an adult. But according to that book, Keith was 18, and Lance was 17. So some people pointed out as a *joke* that now Klance was the ship with a minor and an adult.Of course antis claimed that it was the age gap that made sheith “pedo”, and continued their harassment. (vld 2/3) Later, due to weird space-time stuff, Keith aged 2 years while the rest of the team didn’t, so at the end of the show his age gap with Lance was pretty much the same as with Shiro. Antis twisted themselves into pretzels to justify that Keith’s additional 2 years “did not count”. As for the “queerbaiting”: the producers stated twice in interviews that klance would not be canon. Antis insisted the klance would be canon anyway. Meanwhile in canon Lance clearly had feelings for Allura. (vld 3/3)

I don't know where people get any version of VLD fandom history other than: Klance fans sucked.

[daeneryseastar]

I think Olivia is really pushing for Rhaenicent to become canon because it’s the only way she can stay popular with the general audience. They don’t like Team Green but if Alicent abandons her family for Nyra she thinks they won’t associate her with the faction. Do you think the writers will give in?

i’m not entirely sure if the writers would give in specifically because of olivia wanting it, but i do think they have this idea in their head (and this is mostly in regards to how they keep claiming their writing is ‘super feminist’) that if they push these two women together as hard as they can they’ll be able to reach a ’broader’ audience with the tragedy that would be that failed friendship. never mind the fact that every other character and relationship will (and already do) suffer greatly from this decision.

they don’t seem to care about the bigger picture when it comes to the dance, and it’s heavily evident in season one. there is absolutely no way that rhaenicent could ever work at this point (or really at any point) in the story. rhaenyra found out her father was dead and her throne was usurped, causing her to go into pre-term labor and lose her daughter. then luke was murdered as a messenger by aemond. all of this happens within a few days of each other (another glaring mistake but that’s a topic for another day.) alicent being able to abandon her family (which she would never do, and completely defeats the purpose of them having her steal the throne to protect her children’s lives and not just for power) and go on to beg for forgiveness from her arch nemesis whom she has caused so much grief to is borderline insanity. not to mention that blood and cheese are most likely happening in episode one, and while we the viewer/reader know that rhaenyra most likely didn’t have anything to do with it (and even that is still up for debate), alicent will not.

so they’re basically saying that luke’s death doesn’t matter, jaehaerys’ death doesn’t matter, helaena succumbing to her own anguish from choosing maelor to die over jaehaerys (we also don’t even know what’s really going to happen with b&c because there is no evidence of maelor having ever existed in the show, either he’s suddenly going to appear or helaena has to choose between jaehaerys and jaehaera instead.) nothing matters except alicent and rhaenyra becoming besties again; because let’s be honest with ourselves, if this is the route the writers have chosen they’re just going to continue their queerbaiting rhetoric and not confirm them being together/having genuine feelings for each other.

i firmly believe that olivia deserves better out of the fandom, but rhaenicent needs to be shelved. immediately. it’s doing nothing for hotd besides dragging it down. i flip flop every other week on whether the writing is going to be actually worth our time, and with george stepping in to help salvage season two i do have higher expectations. on the other hand if condal and hess are involved it’s pretty safe to say that something is still going to go wrong. hope for the best and expect the worst is the mentality to have right now, unfortunately.

[labselkie]

fuck you rio vidal fuck off stop trying to defend my girl as if you didn’t send the seven assassins after her and then try to kill her yourself. words cannot describe how much my blood boils at the mere mention of her. as wolverine said, “i wish i could say you’d die alone but it’s one of god’s best jokes that you can’t die, but it leaves the rest of us to deal with you”

people only like the ship because of the commodity of enemies to lovers lesbians. it’s so, so disgustingly forced, anything i see of it genuinely makes me feel sick. getting queerbaited by marvel is like losing chess to a dog and people are STUPID

i’m ok guys actually just wanted to get that out😇😇😇 (/gen)

[sunlitsorrows]

Worldbuilding Wordvomit

I call it a fantasy but it really only has the one “magical” element in it and that’s just that you can make a binding oath. A Blood Oath vs a Wine Oath? Was it a gift? Was it a trick? Does it only work in marriages?

Either way, it was something meant to be Good, but twisted and corrupted over the generations by selfishness and greed…

originally (“originally”)/in ye olden time when two people married it was a basic promise “to live and die with you”; widows didn’t survive more than a day after their mate’s passing (was it a gift? Was it a trick?)

(side note; this perhaps the origin of the Second/bestman/maidofhonor in the wedding; the godparents of any children the couple produced, to take care of them if something happened to their parents, because if one dies the other would also die—this later was also changed a bit for political reasons, to ensure an heir could he produced, if one or the other party proved incapable—but as it is part of the wedding ceremony it is just as binding as the vows between the couple)

but with time and shifts in culture (religious upheaval/wars etc) people started prioritizing their children over their partner and the oath became more of a formality, a sentiment to be Spoken but not actually Sworn. No longer a Blood Oath but simply a Wine Oath (This is why Lucrezia doesn’t die when Ilariys is killed)

Around this era someone figured out how to twist the oath to another purpose; called a Consort Oath (the story/propaganda being the first person to do it was a Good King’s royal Consort, who gave up her life to save him—you can guess what really happened) in which instead of both parties swearing “to live and die with” each other, one swears “to life and die for “ the other—

producing three main effects:

1.) the swearing party, the Consort, can be commanded to any task or errand and won’t have any choice but to obey (unsure about this element, but unsure how else to get Vanya to leave Ilariya except by a command he can’t refuse) (also the Incident that gets Vanya arrested—it wasn’t his choice to act? It was the Oath kicking in to protect Lucrezia?)

2.) If the sworn-to party is dying, whether due to injury or illness, the Consort will die instead, and they will recover

3.) As long as the sworn-to party is safe, the Consort is virtually indestructible. They age, sort of, but they don’t weaken with age, or get sick, and can heal from most any wound—they can’t regrow a limb removed, though you can reattach it if it is recovered—only burning them to ash will destroy them.

(Can you see the utility? An army undying, a Queen who—even if you could reach her, which you can’t, because of the unkillable army—you would have to kill her a thousand times before you succeeded—)

(And thus did the Stars take pity and come down as Dragons, to burn the Undying Armies and end the War of Ages and found the Council of All Ankind…)

…

But all that is ancient history—in a peaceful and far more enlightened age, Consorts are only made/given for Crowned Royalty (limit one Or Else Dragons be Upon You) but it’s a very Honorable and Respected court position, a protector and advisor to the Crown, and Consorts who are successful in protecting their Royal are sometimes passed down to a grandchild… meaning if you’re very good at your job you could be functionally immortal! (often promised and almost never granted, yet hope is a stubborn and useful weed)

Against this backdrop, the good and charitable Prince Ilariys, knowing his father is secretly plotting to have him assassinated—for his popularity with the people has already resulted in two coup attempts—seeks to save his Consort (please note that while the Royal/Consort relationship is usually romantic, in Ilariys and Vanya’s case it was not—don’t @ me for queerbaiting this is a load bearing plot point tieing directly to themes of asexuality and friendship being as much love as romantic love), by incorporating him into his wedding as his Second (why did it work if it was a Wine Swearing instead of a Blood Swearing? Because there was already a Blood Oath in place?), and then, at the critical hour, commanding him to live and protect his wife and children.

—she is yours—my wife is your wife and my children are your children—

No—Lala it doesn’t work like that—let me stay—let me fight—don’t do this—

—you swore to live and die for me and I am hereby commanding you to live for them—

But it does work. And now Vanya has to figure out how to live through his failure and grieving of the only friend he’s ever had, while Lucrezia deals with the loss of her husband and incredibly unethical binding of a servant she didn’t want but cannot free.

[toomanyopinionss]

i wanna talk abt

the CW DC shows

man how far they fell…

Of course this list was prompted by the fact that the Flash is coming to an end, signaling the end of an era.

There’s a multitude of reasons why these shows went in flames:

troubling production, some truly awful plot lines, the racism, the queerbaiting…

however, the highs were so HIGH. Every once in a while, i’ll think about the crossovers and get happy nostalgia tingles. they were so iconic.

the penultimate memorable moments in each of the shows.

From the time Barry first broke the sound barrier, to the time Cisco DIED by Dr. Wells but barry ran so fast he went back in time and undid it, to the time Caitlyn’s dead fiancé came back, fused with an old ass professor, just to die again shortly afterwards 😂😂

From the time Oliver’s mom blew up the city with the help of the man she had an affair with (which ended up killing the guys whole son 🤡), to the time Oliver took Felicity to his mansion and told her he loved her as a mIsDiReCt, to the ENTIRE season 5.

From the time Kara came out as supergirl just to save her sister, to the time that same sister actually came out (which, at 14, was so important to me), to the first time Lena Luther is introduced and every time she’s in screen afterwards. (Season 2 was just *chefs kiss*)

and that’s just the main three. don’t tell me that when you think of legends of tomorrow, a good 5 scenes don’t immediately pop into your head. what a batshit crazy piece of media.

Now there’s a lot of discourse as to what started the spark that caught flame and caused this entire franchise to explode as horribly as it did.

some say that Barry going back in time and fucking with the timeline ruined it

some say that the beginning of the end was the batwoman show, one of the hottest messes to come out of the CW’s ass since riverdale’ third season

some even blame the death of captain cold. a very VALID complaint

regardless of what you think, i believe that now that the arrowverse is coming to it’s inevitable end, it’s a good time to look back and reminisce. With the writers strike happening (show your support btw), and the fact that streaming services are unwilling to release seasons with more than 10 episodes, i cherish the time i spent with these shows even more. i grew up with them (for reference, i was born in 2003, so i was 9 when arrow came out for the first time). My dad had the first 3 seasons of Arrow on dvd.

Iris was one of the first black women I saw on screen after transitioning out of my disney channel phase. And she wasn’t a side character or anything, she was a main character and the love interest of the superhero. regardless of what you think abt iris as a character, that shit just wasn’t the norm back in 2015.

When sara lance kissed the daughter of the head of league of assassins in front of her ex-boyfriend, and it was as just another tuesday in star city. such an important scene.

look, all this to say. I will miss this era***. even if I stopped watching the flash during the 8th season. i didn’t realize how comforting it was knowing it was still out there.

***i know the superman and lois hasn’t officially been cancelled yet. but i’m protecting my heart. cuz it’s a really good show.

Goodbye, Arrowverse

********(2012-2023)********

[theenbynightingale]

CLONE HIGH (2023) EP. 8 SPOILERS

Okay, I know I’m opening up myself to a bunch of arguing but like... We need to have a talk. I should preface this by saying I’m not a die hard fan of Clone High. I only caved into watching the original series a few days before the reboot dropped despite hearing about it for years. I think they’re both good but I have my problems with both.

But I wanna talk about Topher Bus, a Christopher Columbus clone in a Gen Z world. He’s kind of taken over the role of Ghandi as Abe’s best friend in the revival, since the creators don’t want to bring him back unless they know they’re gonna be able to make more seasons. He hasn’t had a lot of screen time or development because the abundance of characters in this version. However, him becoming somewhat close with Abe has resulted in some fans shipping them.

So imagine their surprise when Topher tries to blackmail (or white leverage) Abe at the end of the final episode because he is attracted to Joan as well. I’ve seen so many people actually get angry about this. Many found themselves disappointed that Topher wasn’t straight or that he’d do something so terrible to Abe.

To which I say... Why would you expect anything else from this guy?

Topher’s whole thing was that he was an asshole who tried way too hard to convince people he’s progressive or an ally or “woke”, a term he unironically uses. He goes on and on about how he’s looking out for poc and women because he’s just trying to survive in a world that has flat out rejected his clone father.

“But he has a ‘Everyone is Welcome Here’ rainbow flag in his room!” Yeah, he does. He also has a co-exist poster, too. Good for him. Except there’s also a poster that says “Not a paid activist”. It’s a front! That’s the point! 

“But he keeps trying to drill it into everyone’s heads that he’s straight, like a closeted person!” Yes, he does. But it’s not just closeted people who do that. I went to a Catholic school and I also live in the real world. I’ve seen dudes be afraid to drink tea or hug because it might make them look “gay” or “feminine” or whatever bullshit.

“The way he said he liked Joan and white women in general was so exaggerated that he must be forcing himself to say it!” This is Clone High! Everything in this show is so exaggerated. From the very beginning, it’s been a parody of teen satires. It was created by the duo that would go on to make Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, 21 Jump Street and The LEGO Movie. This is their style.

“The episode would have been better if he blackmailed Abe into not confessing to Joan because he had a crush on Abe.” So you’re saying you would have liked the episode more if Topher had gone “Abe, the reason I almost got you molested by a teacher was because I’m in love with you”? I need you to realize how fucked that is.

Topher is a weasly little shit who tries to convince everyone how progressive he is when he’s actually a total asshole. That was the point. Y’all thinking he was in love with Abe or that he had Abe’s best intentions at heart just means that it worked. You took the bait. I’m not saying shipping Tophabe would be immoral (okay maybe after the whole statutory rape thing but that’s just for right now). There’s a solid chance that their friendship could be salvaged after this. I certainly never thought I’d ship Cleo with anyone but know she and Frida are my OTP. But you gotta stop pretending that this character is someone he isn’t.

I might delete this because I’m just trying to get my feelings out. I’m not calling anyone stupid or whiny just because they got upset by the new episodes. (Shoutout to my boy, @warcrimetime​. Sorry they took JoanFK from you so soon). This is just another case of me getting annoyed by people calling queerbait just because a ship didn’t become canon and me getting everything out of my system. (But also, if Joan does see Topher’s blackmail and her reaction is anger at Abe and not “HOLY SHIT YOU WERE MOLESTED?!” then that would actually be legit bad writing).

TL;DR:

Although, maybe I’m just not upset because I got Kahlopatra and you guys lost your OTP and I just don’t understand, I dunno. 

[brooklynishere]

I had a lot of thoughts while watching the Teen Wolf movie and I didn’t have anybody to share them with so I have compiled them here. Completely absent of almost all context, but still spoilers ahead. There was totally an implication they were talking about Stiles' son, that was a deliberate bait n switch to him being Derek's Derek's son has an unhealthy obsession with Stiles' jeep, huh? where the fuck did Malia/Jordan come from? Where did HE even come from? Didn't he die? Chris gets to say fuck a lot??? Honestly I have so many thoughts about the fact the Stiles role is being filled by Derek's son feel like I ship Chris and Peter now ...ok Mufasa "Then I'm definitely not dying tonight" yea you are (later - he didn’t tho) did he just quote Stiles? ...I can't tell but I feel like he did. is this... is this actually going to rely on Eli saving the day with lacrosse? Is that what is happening here? What IS this movie? Scott is ... ALSO playing? This is a really long flashback No really, this is let JR Bourne say fuck hours and honestly I'm here for it "Derek Hale was the first person to teach me that you don't just get the family you were born with, you get the family that you find" MIECZYSLAW "STILES" STILINSKI DID NOT GO THROUGH ALL OF THE SHIT HE WENT THROUGH TO BE DISRESPECTED LIKE THIS SCOTT MCCALL Why is this a compilation of Derek pain CoMpLiCaTeD fEeLiNgS huh?? Okay now I see what the tumblr person was talking about. That is some next level queerbaiting OK  MUFASA Ok so the only acceptable conclusion here is a fic in which Stiles moves back to town to parent his and Derek's son and possibly Derek comes back from the dead.

[birdhouse-lover]

i think what sets hannibal apart from other shows in how it handles its fans’ interpretations of the relationships between characters is that it doesn’t make jokes out of it.

if we are operating under the (likely) assumption that most people involved in the production of the show want to explore will and hannibal’s relationship in a deeper sense than friendship but the network wouldn’t let them (similar to the case with supernatural in that second part especially), then the way they *did* explore will and hannibal’s relationship was beautiful!

1: other characters noticed their connection! we can see this in the freddie lounds “murder husbands” article. will literally asks if hannibal is in love with him. when will tells bedelia that he doesn’t intend to catch hannibal again, she looks like she thinks he’s going to run away with him.

In other queerbaits, other characters don’t notice whatever relationship the audience see or they do and they think it’s absurd or they do and they make jokes about it. hannibal avoids this by taking what the fans see seriously!!!

2: the dialogue???!?!!!! hello???!!!! i mean, there are points in other stories where the dialogue *could* be interpreted as hinting at a potential queer relationship. but in hannibal? it’s shit that would be a stretch to interpret any other way. like “i need you hannibal”. will could have said “we need you hannibal” because that was true! the *team* did need him to catch the red dragon. but will chose the words “*I* need you” implying that this need goes deeper than just the case.

3. in the final scenes, the way they hold each other??? the way they kill together???? they are so in sync???? this has nothing to do with a comparison, i just need to talk about it. will realized what he had become, that hannibal had won in the end, and decided they would die together. fucking romance.

I also appreciate that they didn’t have a bunch of fan service. cause, as much as i’d love to see will and hannibal kiss and like, have a happy twisted murder life, it just isn’t realistic for the characters and their situation. their relationship was based almost entirely on manipulation and obsession. will is manipulated and different, but not stupid. he likely wouldn’t stay with hannibal.

the writers and actors and producers were able to put together a story that while it could be considered a queerbait, also could be considered a queer love story. they avoided the cliches of queerbaits and took the story seriously without having an explicit declaration of love or a kiss.

basically, if you can’t be explicitly and openly queer in your tv show, do what hannibal did and make it as clear as fucking possible and Don’t Make It A Joke.

[henreyettah]

bestie i'm so sick and tired of queerbaiting so before I read the locked tomb is there an actual gay romance between that oversized butch blonde and the skeleton lesbian or will i be left yearning? thank u in advance !! <3

Ok so obviuosly there’s gonna be spoilers here. There’s a very short and concise summary about my thoughts on this at the bottom, if you wanna avoid being spoiled (I’ve tried to keep the spoil to a minimum)

So what you need to understand is that yes, there is romance. ISH. The series isn’t about romance, so it isn’t the main focus at all. Big Butch (Gideon) and Skeleton Lesbian (Harrow) have grown up hating eachother; Gideon has hated Harrow because Harrow has both represented and been an integral part of a system that has kept Gideon prisoner in a dying society, and Harrow has hated Gideon because Harrow hasn’t been able to understand Gideon (Gideon should have died a bunch of years ago, but she didn’t, and it freaked Harrow and her parents tf out).

But they come to this realization that they’re each other’s person. They’re in a new environment, in a new dynamic, away from home, and things are collapsing around them, people are dying. And they have a short period of time when they come to understand each other, they’re a unit. And then they collapse too.

Gideon dies. Harrow, in an attempt to survive this loss (and also to stop her soul from absorbing Gideons, due to death magic) has an even MORE skeleton lesbian (Ianthe) perform lobotomy on her so she won’t remember Gideon. But Gideon has already been a bit absorbed, and is living is the back of Harrows brain. She’s stuck there for almost a year, while Harrow is having the worst time dodging Ianthe’s (sorta) unwanted advances and “Ortus”, god’s friend who keeps trying to murder her. While this is happening, Gideon comes to terms with the fact that she is in love with Harrow. She’s watching Harrow go through life being a wet stinky rat of a necromancer, with no memory of Gideon, and Gideon loves her.

The kicker is that Gideon thinks Harrow had her brainjob because she was grossed out by having Gideons soul in her, and wanted to forget about Gideon because of the yuck.

Due to circumstances, Harrow dies too, and Gideon pilots her body while Harrow roams the afterlife. She regains her memories of Gideon, and Gideons death, and decides that she’d rather have Gideon keep living in her body, alive, than live in a world without Gideon.

After that, a bunch of stuff happens, Gideon gets back into her own body, some other lady takes over Harrows for a while, and Harrow takes a well deserved soul-nap before eventually getting back into her body again. The latest book in the series ends with Gideon declaring that she still wants to be by Harrows side, even after Harrow gets kissed by an eldritch horror with the face of Barbie.

Summary:

There’s a lot of layers to this, but yeah they love each other. They’re idiots who can’t communicate for shit, but they both die for each other and then help each other back to life. The series is about love, and what it does to a person. I’m not gonna lie and say there’s romance, because there isn’t (not in the traditional sense), but there is love.

Also, they are lesbians. By default, it cannot be queerbait. They're queer, wether or not they end up together -- which I think they will, just to be clear, but even if they don't it doesn't erase the fact that they're queer. So it actually can't be queerbaiting.